Victory is Certain
Victory is certain, the resistance starts within.
Victory is Certain
ep 6. Unraveling Hidden Histories within White Supremacy & Zionism
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What if the narratives you've always heard about historical atrocities are only part of the story? Join us as we unravel the hidden intersections of white supremacy and overlooked tragedies, focusing on the Jewish massacres during Argentina's Dirty War. Discover the controversial role Israel played then, funding the very government that targeted Jewish communities. Our conversation pushes further, critiquing Zionism's complex roots in European ideologies and its discriminatory stance towards non-European Jewish communities, while drawing unsettling parallels between historical regimes in Argentina, South Africa, and Israel, and how these narratives persist in shaping perceptions today.
Our exploration doesn't stop at historical events. We critically examine how colonial narratives often eclipse the experiences of Jewish communities outside Europe, casting a long shadow over contemporary issues of identity and victimhood. Listen as we tackle the thorny topics of Israel's treatment of Arab and Ethiopian Jews, cultural appropriation, and the authenticity of narratives crafted by the state. These discussions raise crucial questions about the impact on both Jewish and Palestinian communities and provoke listeners to rethink what they've been taught.
Decolonization and anti-Zionism take center stage as we shed light on the struggles faced by Holocaust survivors in Israel, often sidelined by romanticized portrayals of a vibrant society. We challenge the irrationality of supremacist ideologies, using recent events to highlight their flaws and failures. In this episode, traditional narratives face scrutiny, and we explore emerging alternatives, such as a one-state solution, advocating for genuine dialogue and decolonization. Join us in questioning entrenched beliefs and supporting the podcast by engaging with these vital conversations.
We are talking about some white privilege.
Speaker 2:White supremacy.
Speaker 1:White supremacy as it relates to October 7th 2023. Yeah, victory certain. To all the subscribing stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just shout out to the donation link in the bio as well. All the funds go to Palestinians that have been evacuated from Gaza, that are in Cairo at the moment, so please donate if you can All right, it's rolling.
Speaker 2:So last week we spoke about the weaponization of anti-Semitism and there's something that I forgot to mention in that discussion because basically in in argentina in 1976 to 82, there were these massacres that were committed. Um 30,000 jewish people were massacred during that time by these militia groups and they were essentially like christian nazis and the the atrocities they committed. It started off being against communists and left-wing activists and then the same nazi rhetoric that was used in the holocaust for why they should now start targeting jewish people, and there were clear anti-Semitic reasons for those massacres. But when we speak about the 7th of October, we never like. The line from Zionists is always this was the worst thing to happen to the Jewish people since the Holocaust, when it wasn't just. Factually it's incorrect the death and disappearance of 30,000 Jews is a lot worse than the 7th of October.
Speaker 1:So this particular piece of history, when did it take place?
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:When did this take place?
Speaker 2:This was in 1976 to 1982. And the thing about it. So I was researching a little bit more about it and I found out that Israel actually funded Argentina and armed Argentina during this period. What, yeah? And at the same time they were evacuating Jewish people and offering them like citizenship in Israel. So they knew what was going on. They knew that they were massacring Jewish people, and still they continued to arm and fund them.
Speaker 1:Isn't that, but that's complacency. That's essentially the same at all as the US, and no, they knew about it.
Speaker 2:They knew what they were doing. They did it on purpose, and I think it's very similar to what was going on in the Middle East during the 50s as well, where a lot of the anti-semitic violence in the middle east was perpetrated by Mossad, like a lot of synagogues being bombed and stuff. It was orchestrated by Mossad in order to create this fear and this understanding that, like, jewish people are only ever going to be safe in Israel. So it was just furthering of a colonial project, but I think it's also it was also just the. The racism that exists within zionism ultimately, like, zionism is a white supremacist ideology and it's a european ideology, and so the the treatment of argentinian jews because they are brown, the treatment of arab jews because they are brown, the treatment of Arab Jews because they are brown and the treatment of Ethiopian Jews because they are black, like the way that those groups are treated within Israel it just shows what their true ideology is about it's white supremacy.
Speaker 1:Do you think that what's the name of this atrocity?
Speaker 2:It was called the Dirty War.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:Because it was Dirty. Yeah, it was pretty disgusting.
Speaker 1:I mean like the.
Speaker 2:It was a military dictatorship of Argentina.
Speaker 1:And oh, it was like the Argentinian government.
Speaker 2:Yeah, involved in this. Okay, because they were like super pro-Israel yeah. To this day. Yeah, their relationship is very weird but basically, from what I, from what I read, there's been this um, this ongoing relationship between argentina, hungary, like places like that, where there's clear anti-semitism and the governments in power are 100 anti-semitic. But the relationship that they have with israel is not one of ideal, like it's not ideological in the sense of like religious yeah values or anything. It's ideological in the sense that they're both white supremacists.
Speaker 1:The same reason that israel was best friends with the south african government because on that level of ideology they have great similarities is there a piece in this where we can sort of call on the similarities between argentina, the old sa government and israel right now? Um, are they? What is the similar? These? It's not. So.
Speaker 2:It's not actually a similarity between intentions, it's a similarity in ideology yeah, in in white supremacy where does this?
Speaker 1:who else is guilty of the street, though?
Speaker 2:I mean america, britain, the entirety of europe. I mean, they are like actual nazis in the german parliament.
Speaker 1:Yeah, italy, mussolini's granddaughter has power, you know, I mean europe is not looking like hella yeah comfy for the jews right now but I don't understand, then, why is uh october the 7th the worst thing that's ever happened?
Speaker 2:I think number one is inconvenient for Israel to admit that they funded and armed militias and Argentina during this time when they were committing massacres against the Jews and also when Israel knew that they were committing massacres, and I also think it's inconvenient for them. Francois Nones has this quote he says that colonial colonialists will always refer back to the history of the motherland. In this instance, they refer back to the history of Europe, never the history of any other Jewish groups that live in not Europe. It's always the Holocaust. It only ever goes back to the holocaust.
Speaker 1:There's nothing else yeah, are there further atrocities which uh jewish people, which fall upon jewish people?
Speaker 2:um, I mean not, not on that scale, not 30 000. 30 000 is the biggest number since the holocaust. Other than that, it's been like targeting of um synagogues and of communities like neo-nazis.
Speaker 1:Yeah doing their thing yeah do you see any similarity between how that narrative is packaged and what hitler essentially packaged to people in europe?
Speaker 2:what do you mean?
Speaker 1:well, we were talking about this earlier, like uh, how hitler was democratically elected yeah and it's like jesus. Sorry man, I lost my foot no worries, but essentially like.
Speaker 2:What was so astounding to me about this was that there's a clear like if you, if you I'm not saying that the way that Jewish people have been treated by Israel is on the same level that the way that they've treated Palestinians, and I don't think that.
Speaker 2:I don't think that it's as bad as the way that they've treated Palestinians and I don't think that it's as bad as the way that they've treated Palestinians, obviously, but I think it's important to point out the fact that even Jewish people have been persecuted by the state of Israel. If it's not in Argentina, where they armed and funded militia groups that killed and disappeared 30,000 Jewish people, then it was the way that they sprayed ddt on arab jews coming into israel. The way that they castrated chemically castrated ethiopian jews um coming into israel and like when it comes to the masrahi jews um, there was this thing called the yemenite children's affair, where it was basically Yemeni children that they kidnapped, jewish children that they kidnapped, they did experiments on them, they injected them with sickle cell anemia and like they did all the crazy shit to them, and they also kidnapped them for the purpose of having children to adopt for Ashkenazi families, like European families.
Speaker 1:Okay. So then what should people if we disprove the narrative that they use right now? In global media, and this is the way people find themselves in arguments all the time. What about October 7th? What are people meant to do now? Are they because, like what, based on what you are saying, I would?
Speaker 2:I would tell people not to engage um like in like this in like an argument of discussion, because it's it's clear, it's a packaged thing, it's it's advertising yeah, but I think that when it comes to the 7th of october, like people are going to bring that up regardless. Every single zionist is going to talk about it, but a lot of them don't know about any of these other things.
Speaker 2:They don't know about the way they're like for example, ethan klein we were talking about him before and the way that he's having a mental breakdown because of anti-Semitism that he's experiencing because a few Arabs made fun of the fact that there's an Israeli brand of hummus and he likes to believe that you are doing cultural genocide when you ignore Arab Jews. But Arab Jews were mistreated badly. They've always been. The entire culture was denigrated and they weren't allowed to practice their culture. Like there was this fear that Arab Jews would have some likeness with Palestinians and that they would intermarry with Palestinians, and so they castrated, like a lot of of arab jews that arrived in israel, because they didn't want them to procreate with palestinians. So he can talk about his hummus and how. You know it's so rude that people don't recognize that israel.
Speaker 1:You know they have arab jews living day, so I mean, I think of uh israel like a celebrity that an agent is trying to promote yeah, that's exactly what it is like you need to give it a story yeah of like difficulty and um, it's, uh, it's almost like the the taylor swift thing where she's like oh, she's always being bullied and all this. Yeah, like of course. But it's almost like the Taylor Swift thing where she's like oh, she's always being bullied and all this. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:It's like the it's the typical. The typical way that these kinds of ideologies become so pervasive and attractive to people Like Nazism was the same way. It came from this victim complex of we were. You know the treaty of a side. We had to pay reparations, our economy collapsed as a result of that.
Speaker 1:That's how you develop cultural capital within someone. It's by giving them a story that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've risen from the ashes. Yeah, you've risen from the ashes.
Speaker 1:And now that's kind of what allows you to be cool we don't even have a story like that as well. We do like uh, colored people, we getting appropriated all the time nine address going on like we failed as a society of colors if not was going on. But like how many people? Like how much white people? Do you know that? Use khaled language?
Speaker 2:yeah, but it's not. It's yeah, the, the. But I don't think that the appropriation of language means that we as a community have stopped being dehumanized like we're still dehumanized because even because of that language, specifically because they can, like you know, appropriate the language, but we're still seen as ham if we do it true, but they essentially, by stealing our culture, they adopt what we went through, as they're like, they adopt the or, actually, without going through what we went through, they capitalize on what we've developed yeah um and that's with with israel, like it's a creation of a cultural capital but, it's not translating.
Speaker 2:People are yeah it's not connecting yeah so and the so theodore, it's all one of the early pioneers of zionism. He wrote something called the new jew and it was basically this conceptualization of a new jewish identity that wasn't based on the victimization experienced by the holocaust, but still, still as a response to it. So, instead of being this weak, you know, uh jew, who's now like lost their dignity because you were, yeah, targeted during the holocaust, now you become this like very strong. Essentially, you become the aryan race. You become and like it's, it's insane to actually like look at the propaganda, because it was just, you know, strong white boys, very ar Aryan race vibes, and I like I was reading about this and just seeing the way that, um, that he speaks about it as and it's a way for like, it's a way of justifying colonialism, but it's also a way to like recruit people into the idf, because it's this idea that, like we won't be subjugated ever again, never again.
Speaker 2:You know that's the vibe we're going to. We're going to kill anyone who comes for us. Netanyahu says it all the time anyone who hits us will hit them back, and it's like that's not really a military strategy, but fine, but this is the thing that's like been ingrained for so long, and I think that's also why um jews of color are persecuted and subjugated within the state of israel, because it's not about judaism and people of the same faith, it's about white supremacy. It's a colonial outpost at the end of the day, yeah, and always been a colonial outpost and also changing the viewer viewership of israelis as not.
Speaker 1:They're not imperialists. The people were liberated yeah where do?
Speaker 2:I guess I'm just disappointed, yeah no, it is like, honestly, every single time I read about this entity, I become more disgusted. And I'd known about these massacres that happened in argentina in the late 70s, early 80s, and it was learning that israel funded argentina during this time and that, at the same time that they were funding them, they were evacuating jews from argentina. So they knew what the fuck was going on, but they didn't care. Yeah, they didn't care. They cared more that they have an ally who will not vote against them in the un, like that's their priority.
Speaker 1:It's insane this is uh they sprayed. They sprayed arab jews with ddt I honestly don't even know what DDT is.
Speaker 2:It's like a pesticide. It's really bad. It's really really bad.
Speaker 1:No, I was thinking of wrestling. The wrestler's name is Jake the Snake and he's finishing movies with DDT. That's weird.
Speaker 2:It's really bad. But I was speaking to A few Jewish people about this, because I was really struggling with understanding how this happened. I was like is that why they don't talk about it? Is? Is the reason that they don't talk about it because they funded it? Yeah, and every single person I spoke to was like no, it's supremacy. They don't care about brown people, they don't care about Jewish people, they care about having a colonial outpost in the Middle East.
Speaker 1:So maybe let's talk about Holocaust survivors in Israel right now. They are people who are ostracized. What are they living like?
Speaker 2:You see, that also fits in with the Theodor Herzl ideology of the new Jew. The Holocaust survivors are a reminder that Jews were persecuted and they were subjugated and they were oppressed at some point, and that's not what Israel is about. Israel is about never again and being the strong alien race type piece of shit that will just kill anyone that comes into their way like that's it's like changing the image of the media.
Speaker 2:Yeah and remember we watched that video about the sexualization of Israel and the IDF specifically yeah how they they get these IDF soldiers to become models in like maximum shit yeah, they've got something called like israel gun angels or something yeah it's like a modeling the idea, yeah, agency like how serious are you about war?
Speaker 2:yeah, and while they use the holocaust as a political weapon at every opportunity, they don't take care of the of the holocaust survivors. They don't take care of the people living in israel that are holocaust survivors. Like the statistic is, 45 holocaust survivors die each day in israel because they are, they are not looked after by the government, living below the, the poverty, the poverty line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean they don't factor into the image of Israel that's being promoted as this super sexy place where there's parties all the time and it's like it's always happy and you're liberated and you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 2:It's so sick, honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh man, I think that's.
Speaker 2:But the thing about, like white supremacy and the thing that kind of makes me feel better about it is that, um, they do all of this shit and they behave like this and it's disgusting and it's the it's the worst. I've never seen anything so perverted in my life. But the thing about supremacy, ultimately, is that it's a snake eating its own tail, because it's built on this irrational idea that you're just innately better than me because of something that neither you or I can control. Like you telling me that your skin color makes you better than me, I feel like that's not enough of a reason. You need to work a little bit harder to be better than me. It can't just be your skin, you know, like it can't just be that. And the idea that, like you just think you're the best because of this lack of melanin. It makes you hella dumb. And like I think the idf is like the perfect epitome of the stupidity of white supremacy.
Speaker 2:For example, there was this video that went viral the other day where they were planting their flag in the south of lebanon I track this stuff really intensely, as you know, with my maps and so forth and literally 20 minutes after they planted that stupid flag. They got shuffled out of the area by his blood. They couldn't even stay there for 20 minutes, but the video still went viral and everyone was still like, oh no, look what they're doing. But this is their supremacy. All that they want to do is plant this stupid flag without even being able to take it. You want to come stand there? Oh, I conquered, I got wet.
Speaker 1:They're playing Fortnite bro.
Speaker 2:They haven't taken a single village in Lebanon. Not one, not one, nothing. They haven't done anything. Their tanks, it's just getting blown up. That's all. The commander, the head commander of the now what's it called? The head of central command and the northern command, they both got um hit in like in a an attack. Their truck got flipped over and both of them were gravely injured this.
Speaker 2:uh, it sounds like something like the dj caledon is like the background voice of Israel, but like, my point is that white supremacy is stupid, any type of supremacy, whether it's Jewish supremacy, whatever the stupid, because, like, sometimes, I struggle with the idea of whether it's white supremacy and it's like this European colonial project, or, if it's actually, I think it is Jewish supremacy as well, because they really do believe in this chosen people bullshit nah, but it's Zionist supremacy yeah, it's Zionism, it's just Zionism.
Speaker 1:Jewish people are also being ostracized at the same time yeah, no, it's just Zionism.
Speaker 2:Zionism is a good term, I mean for this like I feel bad for jewish people being impacted by this.
Speaker 1:Actually, it's yeah I feel really bad about I feel, and I feel like it's it's a problem because it it's not, it's not clear to a lot of people, it's not like outright and I mean and yeah, I worry about that going forward it takes away the right of a jewish person to be even he's or herself yeah because they're not fitting into the image that israel is yeah putting out of what the greek jewish person person person is yeah uh, do you think that we are like slowly looking to or do you think that people are slowly shifting mindsets since we started?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's like I mean maybe not since we started, but I I think people's mindsets in general have changed and I think that's something that we have to be proud of within this movement. Like in the very beginning, anything you said was anti-Semitic. You say one state solution and you're calling for the death of all Jews. You know, you say from the river to the sea and you were just shut down.
Speaker 1:You can't say that in Germany anymore.
Speaker 2:Insane. But I mean there's still a lot of places where people get super touched by it, but for the most part I saw this brother who had a t-shirt that said one Zionist one yeah, you know the south african uh you know the one phrase um, one thing I love about that is our freedom of speech. Maybe like I love that about that no, we don't got the same south african freedom of speech uh enshrined in the youtube laws.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, but, um, but yeah, like I think that the rhetoric has changed and I think that's really, really important because, um, the rhetoric allows you to have like a much better conversation, and it has allowed us to have a much better conversation on this. People aren't getting trapped in zionist bullshit talking points anymore, um, and we're allowed to like express ourselves much more in this situation. Yeah, and I think we need to keep like elevating the language, like when it comes to this question of how do you like what people always say, so what you want, how do you want this to end? You want a one-state solution, a two-state solution, for sure, like a one-state solution, but I'm gonna say this like I want them to dec. You want a one-state solution, a two-state solution, for sure, like a one-state solution, but I'm gonna say this like I want them to decolonize. I don't want them to be there anymore, I want them to go.
Speaker 2:I want the occupiers to stop occupying and people will go oh my god, this is so radical. How can you say this? But at the end of the day, that's how you decolonize, that's how you end an occupation. And someone said to me the other day, like that's a really radical take, and I said no, it's not. It's the bare minimum. It's asking for the bare minimum. Let's just be serious for a second. You can't keep using this word radical to like push people out from their position and to push them back and to silence them. To ask for your land to no longer be occupied by the people occupying your land is not a radical take, it's the bare minimum yeah, it's uh, it's just opinion and not even opinion.
Speaker 1:It's like why? Why is this an argument?
Speaker 2:actually, this is the thing um and, like I think I was telling you earlier, like someone came into my dms they were saying um, some stupid. You know israel is the homeland of the jews. And I was like, listen, I know that I'm. You know my ancestors were from indonesia, malaysia, whatever. But I won't go and just point at you know a random island and say, give it, it's not mine, even though I can go there and say pisang and say jiamang and be like you see, I'm one of you, I still can't go there.
Speaker 2:And then this bitch was like nah, but you can, it's rightfully yours. Not this, not this. Like this. Is this? Like you were saying earlier, colonialism is sometimes very difficult for you to get your head around until someone says something so ridiculous that you're like oh, this is actually the mindset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just think you can take what doesn't belong to you yeah, I, you know, I I actually um, I met um with one of my friends in the in the week and they were telling me they befriended someone whose family lives in Israel and like this person was saying this about their family, that like it's like talking to a wall it's not it's not human computing taking place, but yeah understandable that's not news. People in Israel, idiots. I think that's not uh news people in israel, idiots. Um, I think that's that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, donate, yes, sir like, subscribe, comment, all of that other stuff for sure, but mostly donate all right, thank you everyone.
Speaker 1:Victory certain episode six.