Victory is Certain
Victory is certain, the resistance starts within.
Victory is Certain
ep 5. "Beyond the Rhetoric of Anti-Semitism"
Questioning the increasingly aggressive rhetoric of pro-Zionist arguments and the influence of public figures like Ethan Klein and Ziggy Marley on the broader discourse. We confront the impact of identity politics and scrutinize how these debates often overshadow the stark realities faced by Palestinians.
A deep dive into the challenges of LGBTQ+ rights in Gaza reveals the intricate interplay between occupation, societal expectations, and the struggle for individual freedoms. Drawing parallels with the fight for gay rights globally, we challenge the double standards held against entities like Hamas while unpacking the concept of Israel as an apartheid state. Through this conversation, we confront the pervasive nature of individualism, urging a shift towards collective resistance and solidarity. The dialogue also touches on accusations of anti-Semitism within decolonization advocacy, questioning the expectations placed on political entities.
Lastly, we journey through the historical roots and evolving patterns of anti-Semitism, shedding light on economic motivations and the artificial construction of stereotypes. By examining the peaceful coexistence of Jews and Muslims disrupted by geopolitical shifts, we draw parallels with Muslim experiences during the war on terror. The episode underscores the need for unwavering allyship against oppression, inviting reflections on the injustices faced by post-colonial societies like South Africa and the continuous fight for true justice and equity beyond mere democracy or rehabilitation.
We want to kick off by talking about one of the links in the description. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So a really wonderful woman that I met in Cairo. She is raising funds. She's going back to Cairo in January, I believe. So she's just raising funds for all the Palestinians that have evacuated from Gaza into Cairo that she's helping. There's like an entire network. I think at this point there's like 50, over 50 families that are being assisted and it's for just about everything from paying their rent, um, helping them with groceries, literally everything, because they're coming out of Gaza with absolutely nothing. Um, there's not a lot of help for them. They don't get asylum status or refugee status when they're there, so they can't apply for any government subsidies or grants or anything like that. So they rely entirely on the wonderful donations and fundraising of people like this.
Speaker 1:So you can please donate Please, please, please. And also it's a very easy process it's two buttons yeah so go for it yeah, it was payday. Pay your debts pay your debts.
Speaker 1:Uh, if you can, though, much appreciated. Yeah, uh, today we're going to be talking a bit about anti-semitic gaslighting yeah, we've been gaslit this week we have to the point where we had to restart. Today we we got a bit too angry yeah, we got too angry it's a who between excuse me, I'm angry um, so yeah, toy raj, kick us off on your experience when it comes to people stopping you from saying what you want to say or providing a researched argument.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think what was annoying me this week was just seeing the amount of arguments that are being had online about anti-Semitism and all of a sudden, sudden, it's like it really picked up. And this is after we've seen people being marched to death in north gaza, after we've seen people burning alive. We've seen so many orders in gaza. I saw this picture of a father holding the foot of his little baby under the rubble and I, like I, saw a video of a little toddler stuck under the rubble trying to escape, trying to get out, and there's just so much water going on. Israel is bombing lebanon, syria, iraq, yemen, iran uh. The war has now expanded to Lebanon, where there's an attempted ground invasion. Beirut is still being bombed. The West Bank is still being ethnically cleansed and these psychotic hilltop youth are still killing and threatening and pushing Palestinians off their land at every opportunity. Just this week, there was a video of an 11-year-old child who threw a stone at a tank as it was driving away and he was sniped in the head. Their land at every opportunity. Just this week, there was a video of an 11 year old child who threw a stone at a tank as it was driving away and he was sniped in the head and just died right there. And at the same time that all of these atrocities are going on day after day after day, at any given moment you open your phone up, there are five people that you will have to watch die in front of your eyes and at the same time, in between that, it's getting peppered with white people in los angeles crying about their feelings, about perceived anti-semitism, and the argument keeps being shifted towards that and, um, it's, it's this, it's this phenomenon that I've been kind of eyeing for a little while, that, for a long time, people who ultimately support Zionism and who want the maintenance of the state of Israel, they they've had to sort of make like compromises here and there. They've had to say, okay, yeah, free Palestine. You know fine, in the occupation, in the apartheid, in genocide, I can't be, you know, a respectable member of society. I can't be involved in, uh, civilized politics. If I'm for genocide and for occupation, however, i'ma use every opportunity I can to weaponize liberal identity politics so that it becomes about that it becomes. We can't free, pal, free Palestine. Because what about the queers? You know, hamas wants to kill everyone and throw them off a building, when that's literally never been the case. But do you really want to expel 8 million Jews? And it makes it sound like you're doing a holocaust, when really what you're doing is decolonialism, and it's just this all the time. And what I've started to feel about it is that the more that the cracks in this entity begin to show and the more that we can see visibly it being degraded, and the more realistic the collapse of israel begins to seem, the more people who seek to maintain it and seek to uphold it will become louder and more aggressive in their arguments.
Speaker 3:And Ethan Klein, this Twitch streamer with a wife who's an IDF soldier or was an IDF soldier she literally talks about doing a raid in the West Bank. At first she was like a secretary type thing in the IDF. She was just organizing during operation cars led, which was a hereditary assault on gaza. After that she like during that I mean she was organizing where soldiers can like live surrounding gaza, and then she got really bored with that. So then she started to do raids on the west bank and she enjoyed that, um. But he is making videos like at this point, like four hour long segments about how, um, some Lebanese girl is making fun of Israeli hummus and he's triggered by this. This is cultural genocide, he claims.
Speaker 1:And is this a regular thing? What. Is this like a regular? You know you spoke about liberal identity politics. I'm going to bring it to another person who is super pro-Israel Sadly Ziggy Morley. Yeah. Who is signing letters and basically promoting pro-Israel standings and saying like oh, we need peace yeah and uh, it's. It's this strange thing where he's using western symbols of peace yeah, especially like uh, you know bob marley's this old is this the figure that he is?
Speaker 3:he is using that family name and that ideology why do you think his daddy shot the sheriff like? Why does he? What does he think that was about?
Speaker 1:well, the ziggy molly's wife's also israeli, no of course she's so yeah, um, do you think, though and this is like anti-semitism gaslighting that takes place, do you? A lot of people find that they can't speak about anything at work because of yeah it. I guess like why is it?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, like the way that I visualize. It is the way I visualize, like the rhetorical narrative battleground as being very similar to the actual physical battleground where we're fighting someone, we're fighting this entity that has nuclear weapons, billions and billions and billions of dollars, the backing of the entirety of the west power beyond you know, conceptualization. Sometimes, like I can't really even quantify the amount of power that they have in terms of, like, their military and and the amount of military support. I mean you have majority of the American naval fleet in the Mediterranean or in the Red Sea, like every two weeks. But the rhetorical battleground is very much similar.
Speaker 3:Like they've they've spent years, you know, doing the groundwork, making sure that our arguments that the language that we use is colonial language, so that we can get to a place where we have these arguments where liberal identity politics and um, with liberal identity politics and like especially the misunderstanding of liberalism in general, makes people believe that we have to care about everything equally and that every person, every minority, anytime that you are an ethnic minority, we must feel sorry for you and we must pacify every little one of your needs.
Speaker 3:And it's really ridiculous, like that's not really the way that things go most of the time and also you're not supposed to care for. You're supposed to ensure that groups have, like you know, their rights and their laws, but liberal identity politics puts it into this perspective where you have to care for it all equally. I don't give a fuck that Ethan Klein is crying about how people are making fun of Israeli hummus and not allowing him to get away with being a settler, colonialist and talking about like oh, but hummus, we didn't steal it. We actually didn't steal that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's this push to change the conversation every time and the way that they've.
Speaker 3:They've laid the groundwork for years now of creating a space and and language where we fight on their terms, and I don't want to do that. I don't want to like whenever people come to me with anti-semitic you know talking points. I'm being anti-semitic, I said something anti-semitic.
Speaker 3:I don't engage in it because I don't believe in fighting on the on the ground on the terms yeah, the same way that, like guerrilla warfare, guerrilla resistance, it doesn't rely on reacting to everything that the that the enemy does, but it relies on pulling the enemy into a position where they can ambush them. And that's kind of like how I view it rhetorically as well, but it's sometimes so like it's degrading that, in the midst of all of this, we have to return to these arguments of antisemitism without understanding the history, without understanding and without ever being given the opportunity to explain it or to talk about it properly. Because liberal identity politics tells us like you aren't jewish, so you aren't allowed to have an opinion. And if a jewish person says that they're sad, you have to give them. You know they have the right to be sad. They definitely are sad. You can't ever question it.
Speaker 1:It's stupid, it's ridiculous uh, are they usually when we have discussions? Or if you do have a discussion with a zionist, it's like if the conversation goes genocide. What about, uh, gay people? Yeah uh, genocide. Uh, what about the what's the other?
Speaker 3:thing they do, the. What about the israelis? Where must they go?
Speaker 1:where must they go? And you say genocide.
Speaker 3:And then yeah, but israel.
Speaker 1:Israel is the homeland of the jewish people and then you say genocide, but like the middle east and all the anti-semitism in the middle east then you say genocide again, and then they're like, oh, but but saudi yeah, how come everyone else gets to have a muslim country and I don't even get to have one single ethno state? Yeah, so this is the, this is the action, this is the, the game that they've placed you in. It's a back and forth about nothing.
Speaker 3:Yep, completely decontextualized of any history. It's always just feelings and vibes, and I have the right to feel. And because I feel it's, real and non-facts, non-facts, never any facts. This bra is literally on the internet for like the past two weeks now, crying every single day about hummus. And how come? How come we can't just believe that hummus is also israeli? Israel is not a legitimate entity. It's not a real place. It's a fictional, made up little stuck land that you stole. It's not real.
Speaker 1:Nothing that you can have on that land is yours, you idiot like so I think a useful thing for us to maybe do would be to capacitate people who are yeah interacting with this regularly. So, for example, like you get a lot of muslim people who sit in these, arguments, yeah, and the thing that they say is like what about? Saudi. So what should the response be in that situation? Like what, what, what argument. You explain that the genocide is happening.
Speaker 3:The.
Speaker 1:Zionist argument is like oh, but how would you feel if, if, if we, why can't we go to Makkah? Why can't we go to? Like you know, like that's the or why are there, like so many muslim countries but, and we just want one jew, like supposedly jewish, there's a lot of muslim countries in the middle east.
Speaker 3:but, like, if you go to you know, like eastern europe, for example, there's not a lot of muslim countries there. If you go to africa, for example, there's not a lot of Muslim countries there. If you go to Africa, for example, there's not a lot of Muslim countries there. Okay, you know Mauritius, zanzibar, whatever, but I wouldn't say that there's a majority of Muslim countries within Africa. It's maybe just because of the indigenous people of the land, and so sometimes I would just suggest taking a stock of your surroundings and going oh, maybe I should go back to Europe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the other one they do. What about? Hamas doesn't like gay people.
Speaker 3:First of all, even if Hamas doesn't like gay people, it's not really like their fault. People, uh, it's not really like their fault. You know they have other things to think about, other than individual rights and individual liberties, you know, and they can't really get to that part of existence where you think about like, who am I really? What am I really? Do I, do I maybe have a sexual preference? Do I maybe have a gender preference? They can't really get to that. They are first considered, they first have to consider the fact that, um, they live under occupation. If they move somewhere, you know, a little bit too quickly, they're going to get sniped in the head. They move too close to the border, they get sniped in the head. If they go fishing too far off the coast, they get sniped in the head. That's other than the fact that you know this is before a genocide was perpetrated against the entire people, um, so now, especially within the context of a genocide, with hospitals being targeted now another hospital has been targeted, evacuated and um destroyed. All the universities in gaza have been destroyed, mosques, churches, everything, churches, everything, everything. 80% of Gaza is now a rubble and then I don't know, I don't think that they can manage a pride parade under the conditions that they are currently living in, like it's not something. And also, these people are blockaded. They don't have access to the rest of the world. It took so long.
Speaker 3:Look at America, for example. For example, where you know, peak of civilization, what percentage of that country hates gay people? They're busy implementing laws now that that prevent um queer people from attaining like a whole bunch of rights. The roe v wade in and of itself, like the abortion act or whatever that has to do with individual rights and a person's individual capacity to to express their autonomy, and that also affects, like your, your, like gay rights. It also affects, like civil rights. So I don't know if we should be holding hamas to such a high standard and holding people under, under blockade, under besiegement and occupation, making sure that they have all the correct talking points of a us presidential candidate, when the us presidential candidates don't even have these same talking points. They can't even. They can't even. You know you're gonna ask osama. I'm done like. What does he? What does he think of? Yeah, ask him all that. It's the same question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know uh, what are the? Some of the other moves there they they use, um, I guess there's the, the holocaust diversion. Uh, it's tactic I'm trying to think of, like, if you are, if you compare zionism to nazism, oh yeah, oh, they get so angry about that, so offensive.
Speaker 3:How could you ever?
Speaker 1:actually before we, we, we do that, uh, because I I whatever on that, like people are. When people say israel is not an apartheid state, how do you explain to someone that it is an apartheid state?
Speaker 3:They have separate roads, you know you have to have a separate license plate. There's a Palestinian family in the West Bank that has not been able to leave their house for a number of years because their house, the door of their house, goes out onto a Jewish street. I don't know, I don't know what else that's called.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's right there.
Speaker 3:No, I'm sorry, but like if people don't get it at this point, like you're just a white supremacist.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 3:It can only ever be that Look.
Speaker 1:I interacted with someone recently and we were at the table and they were like I don't really feel like traveling because I'm afraid of being bombed, and I was like what, what? Were you flying?
Speaker 1:to you were flying to, like they were talking about flying to australia, and they were like no, I just I don't. It's going crazy in the world, I don't want to be bombed I mean we're on the verge of like nuclear apocalypse, I suppose. But what like is this the the state of mind of everyone? It's the state of mind is not resistance and standing up for issues. It's I need to protect myself.
Speaker 3:It's it's individualistic it's very much individualistic and that's also kind of like that's what's made me so angry over the last week, is that? So it started off because I posted this thing where it was like so where do you expect all the israelis to go? And then the answer was to how? And so many people dm'd me being upset. Like this is anti-semitic. Not all jewish israelis are for apartheid or for occupation or for genocide. How can you want to displace six million jews? And it's like I don't want to displace six million jews, I want to end colonialism. That means decolonization. That means it's not six million, eight million, uh people who are currently colonizing. They must go, they must leave. And when it comes to anti-semitism, like first of all, that was a european creation, and like just to explain the actual history of it, of the creation of anti-semitism, so during the dark ages I can't actually remember like what year the dark ages were exactly, but at the same time that the dark ages were happening within europe, there was like a hundred years of fighting wars with each other um, within this like, uh, christendom, I suppose, the islamic empire was boosting and it was sort of like from southeast asia stretching all the way to north africa into, like spain and stuff and it was this like massive trade route um within the islamic empire these. I was reading this book. It's called the first 5 000 years of death. I know it sounds hella boring, but it's actually really cool and it talks about, like um, the way that they used to make these handshake agreements in the islam, in the islamic empire. And so malaka was the one port that everyone would kind of do their dealings at because it it was a very popular port in Malaysia and they would do handshake agreements in the name of Allah and it doesn't matter what religion people were. They would make this agreement and be like, yeah, by God, I'll get your boat back by Monday, like that type of a vibe Meantime.
Speaker 3:The Christian empire, europe was within the Dark Ages and the way that they got out of the dark ages was by essentially creating not essentially by creating anti-semitism. And it was because, like, the christian empire was struggling to make more money, basically, and christianity was not a um, it was not a lucrative business, but they needed to turn it into a lucrative business. And what was preventing them from doing that was interest and the bible saying that you can't charge interest on your brother. But then in the creation of antisemitism. They said, okay, wait, who's not our brother? Who can we say is not our brother? They said, okay, wait, who's not our brother. Who can we say is not our brother? The jews, they aren't our brothers for sure. And so that was the loophole that they used.
Speaker 3:They got jewish people to act as, uh, bankers and loansmen so that they could charge interest without these christian lords having to to charge interest. And that's how it started, that's how it was created, which is insane. It was entirely. And that's how, like the whole understanding, or the whole not understanding the whole like um anti-semitic trope about, like jews being stingy and always being the ones who handled money, that was the creation of the white man. That's what they did. They said I need to make, you know, I need to make more bank. Who can I, who can I exploit for this? And it was jewish people. And then the way that anti-semitism came to the middle east um, it didn't in the 19, like you always hear these designers talk about. There's no safe place for jews in the middle east, like it's only israel. Um, first of all, jews were living peacefully. Peacefully in the middle east from the time of the islamic empire right up until the 1950s. In this book that I'm reading about um about like the 5 000 years of death um.
Speaker 3:They talk about how the crusades like wiped out the islamic empire and how it was muslims and jews that were targeted. You were forced to convert um, obviously they forced like pagans to convert as well, but it was like violent, like people were crucified, like it was. It was really really messed up and when it came to like the the history of judaism, jews got pushed towards the Middle East because of the way that they were being massacred by the Crusaders and by the Christians, and that's why there was a significant population of Jews in the Middle East and everything was fine. This book, it's so crazy because it talks about the laws that the Islamic empire implements in order to ensure that jewish people and christian people living within the islamic empire are taken care of and taken care of better than than muslim, or not better than muslims, but before muslims muslims, because it's like it's seen as muslims are, or this is like this, this, this whole empire, or whatever it's by Muslim people and, yeah, the governance is by Muslim people. So you have like an additional obligation to ensure that the people who are not Muslim are taken care of and don't feel like they're being subjugated, like there were all of these laws that were put in place, like ensuring that Muslims had to pay, like an additional tax, so that that could cover the expense, because the Christians and the Jews didn't pay the tax, it was only for Muslims, so that they could cover the cost of looking after Christians and Jews.
Speaker 3:And up until the 1950s there was also this other book that I read, avi Schleim, I think is how you pronounce his name? He's a Mizrahi Jew, a Jew from an Arab think is how you pronounce his name. He's a musrahi jew, a jew from um, from, like an arab jew. So he was from iraq. And then in the 1950s, when he was five years old, all of a sudden there were these like terrorist attacks across the middle east and there were almost side operations, like if you, if you go and you do the research, like there were no just random, you know muslims that were out here being like, okay, it's time to heat up synagogues now, after thousands of years. It was Mossad operations, because the creation of the state of Israel had happened in 48. They needed to get colonialists to come move in there and a way to do that was to scare everyone in the middle east to bring them here. That's what it was they. It was a colonialist project that they needed colonizers for. And he talks about like how, when these terrorist attacks happened in iraq, it was his muslim neighbors that took him in and they were like we don't know what's going on, like what the hell. And it was more sad operations that had blown up these synagogues.
Speaker 3:And now, when it comes to today, the anti-Semitism that people want to refer to in the Middle East is like Arab speaking people using the word Yahud to refer to Zionists, without any understanding of the fact that, first of all, israel claims to be a Jewish state. Everything that they do is in the name of Judaism. Israel claims to be a Jewish state. Everything that they do is in the name of Judaism. They celebrate like holy days by bombing things in Gaza, like these psychotic soldiers. They lit up like this entire apartment building and said, like they're lighting the candles for whatever. It was like some holiday where they they celebrated by withfires and they had blown up all these buildings in Rafah and lit the buildings on fire, and they were celebrating these Jewish holidays. They carved the Star of David into the bodies of Palestinians. They brand Palestinians with the Star of David. They take their tanks and create the Star of David in the rubble.
Speaker 1:They wave their fucking flags everywhere the star of david in the rubble. They wave their fucking flags everywhere. Is this essentially the don't? You think?
Speaker 1:that this is what develops anti-semitism. What like this, the identity that zionists are essentially butchering, the identity of judaism yeah I. I don't think there's much more for like, particularly now. I do feel for Jewish people and like their positioning in this is that there's like a sort of been a poison added to the community and you find like a division where people refer to us as Soviet Jews who stand up we can relate to it because of the war on terror.
Speaker 3:How many times did you not have to say Islam is a religion of peace? I don't know anything about ISIS.
Speaker 3:That's not my mana, I don't know them. How many times did you not have to say that during the war on terror? Like I know? It's bad, I get it's bad for Jewish people. I really do feel for them. I feel like they've been used and abused for literally at this point, centuries, like Jewish people have been persecuted for a very long time and their religion, specifically, has been weaponized against them in so many ways, including by the state of Israel them in so many ways, including by the state of israel. However, like in the context of what's happening today, that's something that you have to sort out going forward, but it's not something that can be placed on on me or anyone that is trying to end the occupation of palestine, or if you have the goal of liberation, like I'm sorry about the feelings of the oppressor and I'm sorry about the, the impact that oppressor, and I'm sorry about the impact that it's having on the Jewish community, but that's not the primary issue.
Speaker 3:And that's what I mean about, like liberal identity politics making everybody feel like you have to care about things equally. Everything exists equally. It doesn't. Genocide, genocide, watching people being bulldozed to death, watching a tank just drive over a person that is greater than you, feeling some type of way because of how your religion is being viewed. Let me just say, like, during the war on terror years, we got, we. We got that all the time we got. We had to, and it's not like it's ended now.
Speaker 3:You were terrorists all the time. You were terrorists every day, but you move on. You just be like, yeah, whatever. And like, if it comes to a point where jewish people are targeted, you know who's gonna be on the front lines protecting them. It's gonna be the same people who are on the front lines protecting palestinians.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter like. It doesn't matter what the identity, it doesn't matter what the identity of a group is. If you're being persecuted, if you're being subjugated, that's what you, that's what will happen, like, people will stand there fighting for you. You think that all of these students in the 1960s in like college campuses in America. They were Buddhists that ideally loved the Vietnamese, or they had any, you know, connection to the vietnamese. No, they just saw them getting slaughtered and they said now we have to do something about it. And that's what it is in like every single instance. It doesn't matter who it is, but there is, there is a hierarchy of needs. Right now, you know, like spock, he said very simply the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, like I'm sorry that you're referencing star trek.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that star trek has to be, but like yeah sometimes people are dumb and you need to know but look the the is a byproduct impact of this anti-semitism. It's that we I think of, like a muslim or jewish person just sitting in a management position where they, okay, a muslim person hires another muslim person. It's that looks a bit off, same with the jewish person hiring another jewish person. That's and it's not the case in other for other people. Or let's just say it's not the case with christians, but that there's a trickling impact and I I think like it leads to jewish people sitting in the same position that muslim people also sit in, where you get looked at strangely yeah for everything in all.
Speaker 1:Like in like. Not just in like the corporate world, but like the in Westernized society. You start feeling weird when you go to a restaurant and a bunch of white people staring at you. This is like the future byproduct impact that Muslim and Jewish people are going to experience, and like the thing that's that becomes a bit frustrating is that this has been evident in the on the muslim community for a while, but yeah, it's not I don't remember anybody ever saying yeah, we don't get to be anything this is a bitchy anti-semitic I don't remember anybody ever having our back during the war, did you?
Speaker 1:yeah, but I mean we, just because of that I don't, I don't think um. We have selective allyship yeah I think, as a community.
Speaker 3:It's important that we ally with justice and like one thing that I that I also want to say on that point is that, um, solidarity it it's not transactional. You know. It's not like if I come to your protest, you come to my protest. If, if I'm not there at the pride parade, you're not going to be at the palestine march, if I like. That's not how it works. It shouldn't work that way. You fight for what is right. Finished.
Speaker 3:If you have this like model relativism bullshit about you know we have to now, like when it comes to, like congo, sudan, all of the other genocides that are unfolding, I understand solidarity with those means you like. Being in solidarity with Palestine means that you also have to have solidarity with other genocides that are being committed. Fully get that. But to have this like transactional relationship with it, it's so twisted because some people get pulled into certain causes because that's where they're good, that's that's where they're valuable. Like there are a lot of people that I know that they're pro-palestine but that's not their like number one topic. It's become more popular or not popular, but like more important to them recently because of this, this genocide. But in general, like they've been focusing on a different element, like if it's housing in south africa or whatever.
Speaker 1:That's fine, like that's good good, and I mean you speak on this because you are capacitated, you've researched on this topic yeah, like the capitalist society is gonna cause a bunch of issues. That we all need to do our best to tackle I mean yeah you and some. Some people are better capacitated to tackle other issues than others everyone some people are carpenters and some people are boxers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we can't you find your function and you work towards it, and this is like the division that they want yeah when we all know the snake will eat itself eventually but, it's, it's.
Speaker 3:This division isn't going to necessarily help anyone yeah, it doesn't, and there shouldn't be that division between, between people within a solidarity movement in general. But I think, especially at this point, what we should be doing is rooting out people who say free palestine, in the occupation, in apartheid, in the genocide, but they don't mean. They don't mean what they say, they're very okay with it continuing so long as they get to have the israeli brand of hummus and go to, you know, talaviv on holiday and enjoy the beaches and whatever shit. And I think, like those people need to be called out, these people who, like talk about, they support palestine. It's just like what you expect is supposed to happen with like eight million jews. I expect eight million colonialists to stop colonizing.
Speaker 3:If we want to end colonialism, I, I, we want to end the occupation. How are we supposed to do that? How are we supposed to end occupation without asking the occupiers to go? And it wouldn't be displacing eight million jews. A lot of them have dual citizenship. First of all and second of all, maybe I don't care. I don't care where you were living before, but you were settler now, you were colonizer now. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand, like we live in south africa where you can see the tangible reality of not decolonizing, the fact that if we want our land back, we must go stand in a court and explain why this is our land, why we deserve it, why we must get it. We must go do land reclamation and fill out a whole bunch of forms. After a white man came here with his boat and just took it from us, and then the argument that he's had every single time is but what economically valuable things are you going to do with this land? How could?
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't know if you, as a black person yeah, I don't know if you, as a black person, I don't know if you're gonna open up like a shopping center yeah whereas this white man over here, though, he's gonna do that. So I don't think you deserve the land that belongs to you, that that's where we are, because we didn't decolonize. I don't want that for palestine, I don't want that for lebanon, I don't want that for anyone else.
Speaker 1:I don't want that for us either I mean because we went for we went for democracy instead of justice and yeah, um, maybe next week we can talk about the problems with democracy we went for rehabilitation over retribution.
Speaker 3:We said, let's, let's hold hands, let's be fine, you know it's deeper than that yeah all right, I think we can all hit out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. I'll also remember to donate yes, please donate and yeah, see you in this feed palestine.